IMRAN KHAN : Pakistanis have always been basically very moderate. We have always had moderate Islam here. We have always had the soft version of Islam because of Sufism. All you have to do is look around. In Lahore, on one side is Mian Mir (the 17th century Sufi of the Qadiriyya-Chishtiyya order), on the other side is Data Ganj Baksh (Ali Hujwiri, the great 11^th century Sufi and author of Kashf al-Mahjub), and the same thing throughout Pakistan. We do not have a “hard” version of Islam. People are basically very tolerant. I grew up never seeing fundamentalism and all this intolerance. Unfortunately, it is a combination of a few things. One: this culture of the westernized elite whose insensitivity sparks off reaction. These fundamentalists, some of them are reactionaries; the proper word is reactionary. They react to their culture coming under threat. Then, two, there was this Afghan jihad which brought this version of Islam. And now we have a system where, unfortunately, we have this socalled War on Terrorism, which is basically this neo-con, Zionist agenda of putting client regimes in the Muslim world, and they equate the Muslim freedom struggle with the terrorism of 9/11. So this War on Terrorism is evoking a reaction in Pakistan.

ISLAMICA : You mentioned Sufism. Visitors are impressed by our attachment to the Islamic spiritual tradition. Do you see Muslim reform as being a primarily political one or also a spiritual one?

IMRAN KHAN : I think that if you have political reform in the Islamic world, the spiritual reform would follow.

ISLAMICA : How about the other way around?

IMRAN KHAN : “The other way around” is something I am not sure can happen because if you have a system where you have such governments as exist today in the Muslim world, that do not allow freedom of expression, freedom of thought, that do not allow debate on Islam, how are you going to have an Islamic renaissance? What you need is proper, pure, democratic governments. Remember, there is no substitute for democracy. And when you have democracy and an open society and debate, automatically you will see the real scholars coming up.

ISLAMICA : Why have you decided to spurn advances from the current government to offer you key leadership positions? Might these not be the ideal platform for implementing many of your reforms? … or do you believe a complete overhaul of the system is the only practical response?

IMRAN KHAN : Simply put, you cannot bring about change by joining the status quo. It is a contradiction in terms. What this government stands for is upholding the status quo, which is extremely corrupt, which is an unjust system. It has never happened in the history of mankind that you first join the people of the status quo and then try to change it. Clearly, my intentions then would not be “change”, my intention would be just like all the power-seekers, I would just be an opportunist who is trying to get into power through the backdoor.

ISLAMICA : You were recently the guest of honor at the “Reviving the Islamic Spirit” conference in Toronto where you interacted with a number of Muslim scholars including those from America and around the world. What was your impression of them and of Islam in North America?

IMRAN KHAN : I think there is great hope in North America about Islam, mainly because there is a spirit of inquiry there. The educational institutions are good, people are equipped to do research, there is freedom of expression. Certainly before 9/11, there really was freedom of expression for Muslims. It was easier for Muslim scholars to debate views on Islam in America than it was in their own country. In our sort of world you have fanatics attacking you on one side, and the moment you spoke about Islam and it was against the leaders of the day, the government would squeeze you from the other side. In most of the Muslim world the government does not allow freedom of expression … if you do not have freedom of expression you cannot have evolution of thought.

ISLAMICA : Why did you not continue with the National Education Movement that you started? Islamica Magazine published one of your articles on the project and your concerns and proposals seemed very persuasive?